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Speaker A: When you open your bank account, what is the number made of? Is it all money you’ve earned from working? Is some of it from your parents or other family members? Maybe some of it is child support or from a partner you share money with? Maybe some is from a loved one who died. The money we have is made of stories. Some we’re proud of, others we feel more complicated about. Recently we got a voice memo from a listener who got a large amount of money from a settlement that made national news a few years ago.

Speaker B: Hi, Anna.

Speaker C: Hi. Deaf Sex and Money. I’m sending a voice memo to propose a topic. I have questions and things to share about receiving a lot of money as the result of a settlement, as the result of trauma. I wonder how people manage this money, what they do with it, how they feel with it, if it’s healing, if it’s triggering all these things. I myself got over a million dollars after being sexually assaulted by a gynecologist at usc, which assaulted many other patients. And I got all kinds of feelings and thoughts about becoming much richer out of a very bad experience.

Speaker A: When we got this voice memo, I remembered this news story, but had to look up the details again. In 2018, the LA Times published an investigation into Dr. George Tyndall, a gynecologist at the University of Southern California, finding that he had sexually abused hundreds of student patients dating back as far as the 1990s. USC was accused of knowing about his behavior and still allowing him to see student patients, some of whom, like our listener, were abused just a few years before. Dr. Tyndall was asked to quietly resign in 2017. In 2022, USC paid more than a billion dollars in settlements to victims, the largest per victim payout ever for a case like this. We are calling the listener. We heard from Natalie. That’s not her real name. And when we talked, she told me the money that she’d gotten from the settlement was sitting largely untouched. It’s felt tarnished and confusing and something she didn’t want to look that closely at. She told me she often forgot the password to that account and preferred not to check it. But this past summer, after. After she started getting panic attacks, she was forced to confront part of what she had been ignoring, both in her body and in her bank account. She took some time off work, and that’s when she reached out.

Speaker C: I’m grateful that I had a financial compensation that allowed me to do certain things, but in my experience, I would have much preferred not to have the experience and not to have the money. And I’M assuming that’s the case for the vast majority of us, but I don’t know.

Speaker A: This is death. Sex and Money, the show from Slate, about the things we think about a lot and need to talk about more. I’m Anna Sale.

Speaker C: I actually, I wrote down the numbers because I wanted to get them right. Can I share the exact number?

Speaker A: Yes, please.

Speaker C: The amount that was allocated to my case was $1.4 million and $30,051.56.

Speaker A: I first called up the listener, recalling Natalie a few months ago. She’s 35 and works in academia. We’re changing her name and being vague about other identifying details to protect her privacy. When Natalie got the settlement checks, she was working as an adjunct professor, earning about $30,000 a year.

Speaker C: So I had two distributions, each of which were like, just over half a million dollars.

Speaker A: These are checks that came in the mail to you?

Speaker C: No. So the first one was not coming in the mail, and I was getting it, like, I waited for it for over nine months. But the accountants who were cutting the checks were in Las Vegas, and I have family in Las Vegas, so I actually went and picked it up from, like, some attorney accountant in, like, a mini mall in the outskirts of Las Vegas. And I. And I. I remember, like, I park in this mini mall and there was like, the massage place called Massage Envy, and then there was the Edible Arrangement, and then there was like this, like, big tower of, you know, dentists and all kinds of stuff. But for me, like, it felt very. I don’t know, it was like.

Speaker A: It was like a big, big thing for me, you know, I was, like, driving there to pick up, like, more money than I had ever conceived of having at once, you know, what did you think about what you wanted to do with it?

Speaker C: There was a lot of cautionary tales of, as soon as you get money, everyone’s gonna ask you for money. Don’t spend it all at once.

Speaker A: You’re gon spend it all at once like a lottery winner, because the risks of a windfall that people know about.

Speaker C: Yes. Plus, it’s trauma. Right. So we’re victims. So we’re traumatized.

Speaker A: So we’re even more impulsive and irrational and unreasonable than anyone else that was in 2022. Receiving that money meant the end of a grueling legal process. But it wasn’t the end of other things, which Natalie noticed last summer after she sent us that voice memo. We talked two different times. Three years had passed since she’d received the money, and she was noticing her feelings were feeling overwhelming. And less manageable. Part of it, she told me, was needing to go to a doctor again.

Speaker B: I needed gynecological care and several exams, and I had, like. I don’t know if you’d call them panic attack, but, I mean, I had great moments of distress during and after them. And I came in and I was like, oh, I have this trauma because I was assaulted by obgyn. I need time to, like, recover from that.

Speaker A: Natalie started in a graduate program at USC in 2015. She was 27 years old. A professor she had met in Montreal had recommended Natalie for a teaching assistant job, which allowed her to attend the university for free and earn a stipend.

Speaker C: I wasn’t making very much money, so I was like, might as well make not very much money in la. I will make for a change.

Speaker A: And when you arrived in la, other than this professor, did you know many people?

Speaker C: I think I knew no one. And I actually really enjoyed that at the time. It was very freeing.

Speaker A: Coming from Montreal, as you were setting up your life, figuring out the healthcare system in the U.S. did you know how to navigate it?

Speaker C: So as an international student, we were. It was actually the easiest time in my. Because I’ve been living in the US for a decade now. It was the easiest healthcare system I’ve ever managed. There was a health center on campus and a university hospital, and basically I had access to everything. I don’t think I even. I think if I ever had to pay for meds, it was like, very, very low cost. And I remember something that I asked when USC was. When I applied and was accepted into usc and they were. We were negotiating funding packages. I asked about that because that’s something that us foreigners worry about.

Speaker A: Yeah. Canadians in particular know what they’re leaving behind and they come to the U.S. Why did you go to the gynecologist?

Speaker C: I actually didn’t ask to go to a gynecologist. I called in and I said, I would like to have a STD test because that’s something that I was sexually active. So I know that’s something you should be doing regularly. And you mentioned, like, Canadians. This is something that. I think it’s kind of funny, but this is something that whenever, like, even if you do, like a study abroad for a semester, whenever you go, this is something you hear in Canada that the U.S. has the highest rates of STD of all Western countries. Probably because, like, the healthcare. The healthcare system is not optimal. I don’t know why. I don’t even know if it’s true. But that’s something that you hear.

Speaker A: So I was like, oh, that was the word on the street when you arrived.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, that. No, no, when I arrived, like, before I left, people go like, well, if you’re ever to have sex in the U.S. watch out, because apparently the STD rates are really high. So I figured, like, oh, I’m just gonna get tested. That’s the right thing to do. And then USC said, oh, well. The health center said, oh, well, we will book you in for a woman’s health checkup because, I don’t know, because it’s time, because you need one. And I said, okay, why not? Yeah, You.

Speaker A: I’m going to let you guide me on how you want to describe this. I think what I’m. What I’m. What I’m curious to know is, after your encounter with this doctor, but you only knew about your experience, did something feel off?

Speaker C: It did feel off. It felt overly exhaustive at the time. So I met this doctor, and he was very friendly and charming. Not at all in sexual or. Or romantic way, but like, just a very friendly, like, person. This is important for me to say because I feel a lot of guilt and shame for falling into that trap. And I kind of want to admit it and make it public, because, I mean, the people who do that are just very good at what they do, and then we get tricked, and it’s not our fault.

Speaker A: When you say falling into the trap, that’s how you’re describing that you experienced initially the encounter as a warm, personable experience that wasn’t threatening.

Speaker C: So there was an intake conversation where I was sitting across the desk fully dressed. And that’s when I found that the physician was friendly. And he for sure made an effort to win my trust. And he did. Like, I felt comfortable. He asked me where I was from. He asked me what my major was. He mentioned his last trip with his wife to Montreal and visiting something that relates to my major and made a comment about it. So in hindsight, like, I can tell that he was making a point to build a connection and win my trust. And then he proceeded to say, I don’t know what is standard in Canada, but a standard women’s health checkup in the US Consists of all these steps. And the steps included a pap test, but it also included a pelvic exam. It included a breast exam, a full skin exam, which meant, like, me being fully undressed and every single corner of my skin being looked at. I mean, this physician looked for skin cancer between my b*** cheeks, you know, so at Some point, it’s like, I don’t know that we were looking for skin cancer at that point. So very, like, I was scrutinized all around. And I remember leaving and being like, well, that’s not what my last OBGYN examination was like.

Speaker A: Did you think, I’m not sure I want to go back to this doctor.

Speaker C: No. In a way, it’s kind of gross for me to admit it, but in a way, I think I felt like he was, like, very attentive and very careful and he made sure that everything was fine. That I, you know, I felt at the time, in a way, almost felt like. I think a part of me for sure, knew that it was bizarre and wrong, but a big part of me, probably the one that was in denial or wanted to feel like it was okay, felt like he was very caring and went above and beyond making sure that I was healthy. You know, like in. Again, like, in hindsight, like, everything is so bizarre.

Speaker B: I should have.

Speaker C: I shouldn’t say that, but there were things that could have made me realize that things were off. But there was a chaperone during the exam in my room.

Speaker A: Describe for me a chaperone. So someone whose job it was to in particular monitor this physician or customary for there to be another person in the room during gynecological exams.

Speaker C: In my experience, that was my first time having a. And since then, it’s been my first time that there would be another person in the room. I know that sometimes male physician prefer to have one just in case also for, you know, protecting everyone, including themselves, like having a witness. But in my case, this, this woman, and I have no idea what, who she was. You know, she was wearing scrubs, but she was, she. She had a chair and she faced the corner of the room, like, opposite from everything else. Like there was no way that she could have seen anything that was happening. Like she made a point to look at the corner of the wall.

Speaker A: Coming up, news breaks about Dr. Tindall’s history of abuse. And Natalie learns that he also happened to be living in the same apartment building where she had lived when she was in school.

Speaker C: So my roommate was just saw like Fox News in front of the door when the LA Times news broke. Then Fox News came to the apartment building.

Speaker A: Whoa. This is death, Sex and money from Slate. I, Anna Sale, Dr. George Tyndall, worked at USC for nearly 30 years as the only full time gynecologist at the student health center, treating tens of thousands of young women, many of whom were seeing a gynecologist for the first time. Complaints started in the 1990s, when he was reported to be improperly photographing students genitals. Over the years, patients and staff accused him of inappropriate touching during exams, sexually suggestive comments, and targeting international students who didn’t know American medical norms. Despite this pattern of reports, USC let him keep practicing. He was finally suspended in 2016 after a nurse reported him to the campus rape crisis center. USC allowed him to quietly resign in 2017 with a payout. The public did not learn about any of this until the Los Angeles Times published an expose in May 2018, two years after Natalie had graduated.

Speaker C: I saw his face. I read his name. I have like a bad memory of names, but, you know, I saw his face. I did not fully believe that it was the physician that I had seen. Like, how many OB GYN can the campus have that are that age, that are white, that, you know, that look like him? But I, I still didn’t want to believe it. So I went to the health center on campus and I asked. No, first I called them and I asked for my medical records because I wanted to know if I had seen this physician. And they said, oh, we can’t give you your medical records over the phone or via email. The only way to get it is if you come in person. Which once again, knowing that the vast majority of victims were international students, what are the odds that these people who went to school are still in LA that many years later, knowing that they’re international students, that they probably went back home? But anyways, I was still in la. I went in person and the secretaries refused to give me my medical records. And I was very vindicative at the time. I got my phone out, I started filming them. I was like, I want to know your full names and I want you to tell me that you’re not giving me my medical records. You know, well, what’s happening in the news, I know the law, I know my rights. I’m entitled to my medical records. So they went and they got them. And then that’s when I was like, you know, I went through it and I read his name. And then there was no, no way around denial anymore. I just had to like, reconcile that I was one of the many women that had been abused.

Speaker A: And then Natalie learned that she had been living in the same apartment building as the doctor for five years without knowing it. And while she had just moved out to live with her boyfriend, the doctor was put on house arrest in her old building, where her old roommate and best friend still lived.

Speaker C: It was really, this is one of the hardest part of my experience. Because he was then in home arrest for years and my roommates owned the apartment, so they weren’t gonna move and I didn’t feel comfortable visiting them. I had left la and they were clearly like, they are my LA family. So it felt extremely difficult going back. I didn’t want to stay anywhere else because they’re my family.

Speaker A: I didn’t want to stay in the building because you did not want to run into him. You didn’t want to be just in physical space near him.

Speaker C: I think more than the rational fear of seeing him was the violation. Like, I really felt violated in my body the first time and then I felt violated in my sense of home. And that was really hard because I felt very comfortable in this home before knowing that. And I didn’t grow up feeling comfortable at home very much. So when I first had these like, roommates, that was like my first time as an adult feeling very comfortable at home.

Speaker A: Will you again, I want you to guide me on how you want to describe this. But you, you told me how the encounter, how the, the appointment, the time in the medical office registered in the moment when you learn this news that there was a pattern of overly invasive examinations, sometimes inappropriate comments, more than inappropriate comments for many women. And when it registered for you that you had been one of many, many. Like, how would, how would you describe, like, what the sets of feelings that came with that are? How did that roll over you?

Speaker C: To me, the hurt feels from. Comes from feeling like I have been tricked and feeling like this one man had so many accomplice that were out there to trick so many women for so many years. This is where I hurt personally and emotionally. What he did to me is sexual abuse. This is undeniable. Now for how he registered with me, I mean, I have to accept and reconcile that. Obviously, if I had known, I would have never given consent. But in the moment, not knowing and being tricked, I gave consent. So that’s why I’m saying, like, politically and on the institutional level, it is sexual abuse. But to me, the trickery is worse.

Speaker A: I feel the pain of having, of feeling foolish.

Speaker C: Oh yeah, this is way more hurtful for me. I distrust my judgment for so many things since then. I think the right word might be dumb. Like I feel dumb for not. Realizing what was going on.

Speaker A: Coming up, Natalie joins a historic class action lawsuit. The sheer volume of victims, more than 700, combined with the length of time the abuse was concealed, led to the largest sexual abuse settlement in Higher education history.

Speaker C: The lawyers found Natalie through social media, I guess because I was looking up the LA Times articles or all the articles about it. I was being. It was like, I want to say, like courtship. Like they were really after me, you know.

Speaker A: I called Natalie back a month after our first conversation. When we first talked, she had taken a leave of absence from work for the first time since the abuse. After her panic attack started, she went on disability leave to prioritize her mental health. She was debating then whether to extend her leave. And when we talked again, she was still off into another semester. She had decided to invest some of her settlement money to cover living expenses and different kinds of therapy.

Speaker B: There’s talk therapy, there’s somatic hypnosis, yoga, emdr, and it’s kind of hard to try these things if you’re working full time.

Speaker A: All this therapy meant revisiting the abuse and retelling the story. She’d had to do that a lot during the years leading up to the settlement, too. When she joined a class action lawsuit against USC in 2019, detailing her abuse felt more like a rushed kind of accounting to calculate monetary damages.

Speaker B: We were told very clearly that if you were digitally raped with gloves, you would get less point than if you were digitally raped without gloves. And, and you would get more points if you were raped because some of the victims were by the physician using this genitalia. Right. So like we were told that all of these things, and then if you were made racist comments, sexist comments, all of this was quantified. And then in addition to that, so if, if that wasn’t strange enough, then whatever your personal experience before would also give you points. So if you were a previous victim of sexual assault, you would get points for that. If it was incest, that’d be different points. If it was in childhood versus in adulthood, if your parents were victim of incest, which I, I say that now because both of my parents were, and I had not fully realized that, or, I mean, I, I just never made the connection of all these things together until an attorney was telling us, like, wait, you, you deserve extra money if, if it runs in the family, if it happens in childhood. So that was. Well, first, to me, the whole thing is still hard to wrap my head around, but it was also, I guess it didn’t feel like we were going through trauma recovery fully at our own rhythm. Like, I had not fully realized that all these things were interconnected and maybe I didn’t have like, the time to fully have these realization within the context of therapeutic Care with a healthcare provider, with a mental health provider.

Speaker A: It was more like in a questionnaire with an attorney who’s calculating a dollar amount.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: Wow.

Speaker A: And so part of the calculation of the trauma of having been violated by this physician was what past harms or traumas might this be compounding with with the fellow victims, the survivors? Did you. Were you made aware, did you share with some how much you received from the settlement and how much others received? Is that something people talked about?

Speaker B: So, no, because we. The support group that was set up by the attorneys, and I think that was a. A very conscious decision on their part, ended before the allocations were announced and distributed. But we did talk about money. We talked about. What we were going to do with it, because we had a sense at some point we were told, like, you’re going to have, like, it’s gonna be a serious amount. So we talked about what we’re gonna do with the money. Some of us talked about who we were gonna tell about it. And there were, you know, women married for decades that wouldn’t. That weren’t gonna tell their spouse about the money. Yeah, that was. Yeah, those that weren’t gonna tell their family, We talked a lot about. So all of us, or a lot of us had, like, silly. Like, silly spending we wanted to do. We’re like, oh, the day that this is over, like, I’ll open a bottle of champagne. I’ll take a trip. I’ll go to the spa. I was laughing because, like, very. When I was still at usc, my roommate was asking me, I was like, what would you do if you win the lottery? And I told them, I was like, I would get a second bicycle. And he was like, girl, you don’t need to win the lottery.

Speaker C: You need, like, 120 bucks.

Speaker B: Just go get a bicycle.

Speaker A: So wait, but I don’t understand why you need two bicycles.

Speaker B: I don’t know. I really. You can only ride one? Well, some. I mean, some people like to have the road bike and the commute bike and the off road bike.

Speaker A: Oh, did you get a second bicycle when you were reminded that it was well in your grasp without winning the lottery?

Speaker B: Yes, and I would highly recommend against it. It’s not nice because then, like, it kind of breaks down. So you neglect, like, bringing it to the store. You just use the second. And then, like, yeah, we actually, like, between my partner and I, we were sharing, like, five of them. They’re always, like, they always have flat tires. I really recommend against getting a second bike.

Speaker A: Anyway, lesson learned.

Speaker B: So the attorneys Also had set up.

Speaker A: Now, I’m blanking on the term, but like a company that gives you a salary, takes all your settlement money and then sets it up like a payment from a trust or from an annuity or something like that.

Speaker B: Exactly. And then you could have it for the next X amount of year or until you die. And then it’s like based on your life expectancy. So some of us talked about choosing that option.

Speaker A: How did that option sit with you? This idea of let me entrust somebody else to handle this corpus of money and them give it to me in installments.

Speaker B: At first it felt very appealing because I was just so overwhelmed by the amount of money. But then quite quickly it felt like disempowering and there was a lot of my power that had been taken away by the institution, the physician. So at some point I was like, it felt a little bit infantilizing to give this money to someone else to manage it for me. I hired a personal advisor, a financial advisor. A financial advisor. And I asked her to review with me the structured settlement proposal with the amount. And I was like, look, I. I understand very little. I have very little financial education. I have very little financial literacy. Can you compare these two things with me and help me make the right decision? And it was not so much to make the right decision as it was to gain the confidence that I was compreh handling this situation and for once making the right decision for myself.

Speaker A: So she was very helpful and she advised you, for you, for your personal circumstances, that this structured settlement, it was okay to say no to that?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Did she give you other advice that you implemented about how to handle the half million dollar checks, the 2/2 million dollar checks?

Speaker B: I don’t know if it was advice, but she kind of gave me like financial education. Like, she told me like different ways that you can invest your money. And literally, like, I needed someone to tell me, like, don’t keep it, keep it in your checking account. Like this is where I was coming from, you know, so. So she did that for me. Yeah.

Speaker A: Were there, you mentioned in your support group there were some women who were very clear that they did not want to share that they were receiving the settlement money. Was there anyone in your life you were hesitant to tell that you were receiving this windfall?

Speaker B: Yes, And I did and I regret doing so. But my mom, she. I never told her how much or anything, but I did tell her that I was abused by a physician at school and that there was a lawsuit. And my mom is a survivor as well. And her trauma response is just normalizing and denial, and it’s very hurtful for me. So her first reaction was like, oh, lucky you. You’re gonna make a bunch of cash. That was really hurtful. So now she’s someone with whom there’s like a big taboo about that.

Speaker A: You don’t speak with her about how. How this is changing your life, how you’re thinking about it?

Speaker C: No, not at all. No.

Speaker A: How has this time. What has happened in this time when you have allowed yourself to step out of obligations and go on disability, declare that there’s healing that needs to be tended to? What’s happened?

Speaker B: I think that I. That I unfortunately discovered that a lot of other experiences and previous experiences had affected me. I guess I. I’d say that I uncovered or I realized how much other trauma I had, but it also really allowed me to notice that there’s. There’s a lot of professionals out there that help with these things. There’s all kinds of techniques and. And I. The time is so important because there’s no cookie cutter solution for any of us. Right. So I. My partner and I also want to have children. And there’s a lot of things that, if we do have children, I’m happy that I’m grateful that I get to reflect upon now before being a parent.

Speaker A: Taking some time to get to know more about what. The topography of what you’re responding to in your history before you’re parenting. And it comes out in reactions.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Is that sort of what you’re saying? I mean, it may still come out as reactions, but you might recognize a little bit more. Why I want to know. I mean, speaking of the possibility of becoming parents, which is such a physical experience, an embodied experience inside. It’s also a very intense time of exposure to the healthcare system, a lot of poking and prodding and figuring out what’s going on with your body while you’ve had this time. Are there things that have changed about your relationship to your body, the way you want to be intimate, the way you think about sex?

Speaker B: Yeah, a lot has changed of my relationship with my body and mostly of having a relationship. It’s mostly about having a relationship to my body. I think one thing that I. I probably. I think I was partially in denial about how much this experience affected me because I’ve had always happy and satisfying sex life. And when I ask my partner, that’s their experience as well. So I think. I felt like I didn’t have, I don’t know, sexual dysfunction. I was like, you know, I’m enjoying it. They’re enjoying it. We talk about it.

Speaker C: It’s great.

Speaker B: But then I realized that actually my body, I was capable of feeling pleasure. I have no problem with pleasure. I can feel pain. No problem with pain. But everything in between, like, comfort, discomfort, this is way harder for me.

Speaker C: Oh.

Speaker A: Just like rest at rest ease.

Speaker B: And my main coping mechanism for my anxiety and my trauma is like, hyper intellectual intellectualization. So I can, like, you know, like, spin and spin and spin and not be like, literally forget about breathing, drinking, stretching, using the restroom, like basic things. And I was like, So, yeah, it’s allowed me. I’ve been practicing yoga more. This is great. I always say yoga is couple therapy for my mind and body, so. Oh, I like that. And I was like, these two, these two, they need a lot of couple therapy.

Speaker A: So it’s been one silent partner for a while. Somebody’s been dominating this relationship.

Speaker B: Yeah. We have a really avoiding avoidant partner, and we have this, like, overbearing one.

Speaker C: And it’s like.

Speaker B: And they don’t talk. Yeah. So I haven’t, like, my sexual life hasn’t changed that much at all, I don’t think. But maybe my sensual life has changed more.

Speaker A: I’d like to ask you about money again, because I’m picturing this very large account that’s just labeled therapy. And I’m wondering if there’s other things you’ve done with the money that you have given yourself permission to do with the money.

Speaker B: Honestly, I have spent very little of it. And there’s two reasons. One is that I receive an inheritance from my father at this similar time, which was much smaller but kind of more than enough for whatever I wanted to do anyways. And the other reason is, at first, I kept this money really aside because it was like dirty money, trauma money, like EU money. And. And now I realize that one of the biggest thing that it’s doing for me is that it gives me a sense of safety and a sense of autonomy and freedom, that I don’t have to rely on others, that I. That I’m gonna be okay. I. I often think that in my healing process, in my healing program, there’s gonna be a way where I’m like, oof. I feel better, like this is behind me, and that at that time, I will be like, oh, now it’s time to donate a portion, spend a portion, you know, do something with it, like, let go of it.

Speaker A: You see that? You know, that time. You anticipate that time, but we’re not in that time yet. No, That’s a listener we’re calling Natalie. Dr. George Tyndall was charged with 29 felonies consisting of 18 counts of sexual penetration and 11 counts of sexual battery by fraud. He died in 2023 before the criminal trial. This episode was produced by Zoe Agile. Andrew Dunn and Cameron Drewes are also on our team. Daisy Rosario is our senior supervising producer, Hilary Fry is Slate’s editor in chief, and Mia Lobel is executive producer of Slate Podcasts. You can support the production of our show by joining our membership program, Slate Plus. If you haven’t already, you get bonus episodes that we make just for Slate plus members. And you can listen to all of Slate Slate’s podcast ad free. Subscribe directly from the Deaf Sex and Money show page on Apple Podcast or Spotify, or just go to slate.com DSM+ to get access wherever you listen. Our theme music is by the Reverend John DeLore and Steve Lewis. If you’re new to our show, welcome. We’re glad you’re here. Find us on Instagram @deathsexmoney and I write a weekly newsletter. You can subscribe to that@annasale.substack.com you can reach us anytime with voice memos, story ideas, pep talks, critiques at Our email address, deathsexmoneylate.com we love hearing from you. And one more thing Natalie said about money. She said while her settlement is objectively a lot of money, it can be disorienting when you start comparing it to other depictions of American wealth.

Speaker C: I started watching Gilmore Girl again, and the grandparents are really rich. And the way that you know that they’re really rich is that they have like a really big house in like a city center and they have like a maid and a cook and a driver. And so like, I grew up watching this thinking, like, that’s what rich people have. And like the USC money is on the one hand, it’s like so much money for me, but it’s also like, I could live like maybe like six weeks if I was the Gilmore Girl grandparents with that money. And then I would go bankrupt.

Speaker A: I’m Anna Sale and this is Death Sex and Money from Slate.